Identifying NZ Birds

[Dave Houston]

There's a great website for identifying many of NZ's birds at www.whatbird.co.nz  Besides a photo and description of each species there's also audio so you can brush up on your bird call recognition.

There's also a gallery of NZ birds at http://www.nzbirds.com/birds/gallery.html

[Leovb]

Hi Dave,

I just had a look at the website mentioned and searched for wrybill and red-necked stint. Neither were there!
I suppose for the birds that are in the websites database it is OK (nice pictures) but it doesn't cover all NZ birds and not even a bird like the wrybill (a NZ endemic), which is a species you are bound to encounter when birding around the country or when you live on the South-Island, the Firth of Thames or the Manukau or several other places on the North-Island.

Of course there is always the possibility that I didn't use the searchoption correct, though I searched via the "search"-block and via the "waders, gulls ...." block.

So, I'm afraid I won't be recommending this site to birding friends.
 

[Steptoe]

The red crown kakariki  photo "John Kendrick, Crown Copyright, DoC 2004"  is an illegal red /yellow crown hybrid

"Flight call a rapid loud chatter, lower-pitched than Yellow-crowned Parakeet."   The red crown is far loader than the yellow and their is no way a person could distingish between a yellow and red call unless they are side by side...There are very slight diferences in their languages, they do not comunicate between species.

[Leovb]

Hi Steptoe,

I don't understand what an "illegal" red/yellow crown hybrid is. Could you explain that for me?

It also would be very interesting on what grounds/bases you decide that those two species have interspecies communication.

Regards, Leo

[Steptoe]

It is illegal the cross breed kakariki species
unfortunately there are still a few hybrids in captive stocks, unknown to the holders or DoC.
Something that we at www.kakariki.net are 100% against.. internationally
Also note my 'sick sense of humour' in the banner ..it is a hybrid
A pure breed kakariki will either have a pure yellow or red crown.
It is because of hybridisation within the species that for decades Private breeds maintained the Orange was a separate species, a Doc wiped out huge captive population some yrs back...then they decided to do a bit of genetic testing and confirmed what private hands on breeders had been saying for generations....and that the Orange recovery program was instigated.
Many of the early releases ...tiri tiri... where from hybrid stock, against the advice of private breeders.

Althu yellow and red crowns occurred thru out NZ co habituating they do not cross breed...even in aviaries they do not interact, to cross breed they need to be forced to do so.

There are more kakariki between Iceland, Europe, Bulgaria, Canada USA to Peru than there are in captivity and wild in the whole of NZ. They are kept as did the Maori and early settlers as we do budgies, they make excellent house pets.

Also in the wild kakariki mutations (different to hybrids, where once very common, today I know of 1 old pied male at othrohonga...The gene pool has been lost to NZ. Due to mass culling by early settlers, and intensive capture mainly of mutations, then what was left hit hard by rats/stoats etc .

Much of the papers and research on kakariki are wrong or flawed, and continued reference to these has perpetuated misconceptions everything from diet to personality.
The person who who be the most knowledgeable in the world  on kakariki is Peter in Belgium.

IF one was to replace every sparrow, blackbird, thrush and myna with a red and yellow crown kakariki, that is what NZ used to be like, in the bush and cities....like Aussie has native parrots in urban back yards...
There are breeders in NZ who are prepared to breed and supply stock to Conservation projects ( even release in Albert park in Auckland CBD) for free...and a pair can knock out a batch 5 to 9 chicks every 8 weeks thru out a yr, I find it very hard to stomach way we cant do this... and not just kakariki.

It may astound you, our stock is pure breed, disease free (checked at Massey by DoC,we supplied the surrogate parents for the Orange recovery program) then each year we take a whole heap of them down the back yard , dig a hole, and snip their heads off....

[Leovb]

Hi Steptoe,

Thanks for your reply! I do understand now what you meant by "illegal". I can even understand that breeding hybrids of these two species in NZ is not permitted/illegal. Though I doubt whether hybrids would be a risk for wild populations even if they escaped because (as you stated) the two species don't interact in the wild?

Of course you will realize that your reply gives rise to even more questions. Do you mean that you are breeding kakarikis (whatever the colour of there "fronts") and you have to destroy them? I have kept and bred red-fronted Kakariki's in Europe and they breed as easy and prolific as zebrafinches. In the Netherlands they would be some of the easiest to get and cheapest parrots available in most petshops and on every bird-market. Like budgies are overhere. Imagine what a couple of thousand extra kakarikis a year released in managed areas would mean!

The story about the orange-fronted kakariki and the DOC, sadly, doesn't surprise, just another example of ideological directed measures by the all to often radical and hence short-sighted, conservation-organisations or government-disciplines. (Which doesn't keep me from supporting (a few) of these clubs and authorities because in the end of the day especially the goverment-agencies are needed to at least save some of the biodiversity, no matter how illogical, limited and arrogant they operate. A case of choosing between several non-optimal choices).

If you could give me place where I could find the full-story of this mass culling by DOC I would be very gratefull. It would be a stunning story for my Dutch and Belgium friends and also a good example to analyse where things go tragically wrong (I've also been a quality-manager).

In New Zealand, that is regularley being reffered to as an open zoo by myself, fellow birdwatchers and biologists, you would hope that the goverment would keep or let private persons keep and breed viable populations of all endemic species (fauna and flora) as a back-up or insurance against all kinds of risk. In this "clean and green" country there should be more of a realitycheck and a comprehension of the reality that it is impossible to prevent all misshaps to endemic species. From diseases and introduced predators to poisining with 1080.
Governments need lots of money to do that. Private breeders do breed much more economically without using the "tax-payers-dollar".
Then again I suppose that wildlifemanagers know these things to and that conservation of species doesn't mean keeping your hands of them but is sometimes very much a "hands on" thing and looking at what is necessary to maintain or reach viable populationsize in the "wild".
NZ has a record of that with kakapo, black robin etc, etc and of course on the Islands, where you are still breeding e.g stitchbirds in controlled environments (basically as in most reserves in NZ). So, basically, I believe that in order to prevent the infamous and never to be heard again "Dawnchorus of NZ" from becoming even more silent, wildlifemanagement is relevant. But I also believe involving more people with the knowledge to secure populations under controlled circumstances would make it possible to boost numbers of a species.

[Steptoe]

Do you mean that you are breeding kakarikis (whatever the colour of there "fronts") and you have to destroy them?

Yes..It is heart breaking

Code: [Select]

The story about the orange-fronted kakariki and the DOC, sadly, doesn't surprise, just another example of ideological directed measures by the all to often radical and hence short-sighted, conservation-organisations or government-disciplines. (Which doesn't keep me from supporting (a few) of these clubs and authorities because in the end of the day especially the goverment-agencies are needed to at least save some of the biodiversity, no matter how illogical, limited and arrogant they operate. A case of choosing between several non-optimal choices).
I agree, but still see arequirement For DoC to oversea and supervise with some commonsence the overall release of native species....
Yet one can breed game birds, chat to a local farmer, release, fill out a form for wildlife and game, number/where and post in.... no scanning /monitopring for deases or anything..which is a big arguement from DoC

If you could give me place where I could find the full-story of this mass culling by DOC

http://www.kakariki.net/downloads-cat1.html
3rd one down "Orange Kakariki"

It would be a stunning story for my Dutch and Belgium friends

I thnk you will find they are already menbers of kakariki.net and have been for many yrs.

DoC is now considering submission for scedule 3 of the Wildlife act 1953    which I have put in a submission
I do not know if I am able to publish my submission but is basically a commonsence approach alone these lines...I dont just call a spade a spade but offer basic solns to the issue
http://www.kakariki.net/ftopicp-1990.html#1990

But I also believe involving more people with the knowledge to secure populations under controlled circumstances would make it possible to boost numbers of a species.

Definately and there are a lot of people who are elderly or partly disabled who cant plant trees, and walk the hills but certainly can breed birds, lizards, snails and stuff, rather than just making a donation to some project or Forest and Bird.

Conversvation budgets are going to get tight..gov and donations.
It is about spreading the $ as far as possible.
DoC is sitting on a huge PR coupe internationally.....
Basically grab a few kakariki (or whatever species) out of the bush, volunteer breeding in bulk..breed like they do in Netherlands/Belgium
Mass release 50 or 100 at a time....rather wait till the red and yellow are at orange level and panic.
Forget about islands, albert park Auckland CBD, Motahue, small bush resevers in suburbs.....we dont need an expensive research program, take 4 ys of beaucratic BS to get a permit to capture a few bird, another 2 or 3 yrs getting stock up....currently they are going to get their heads chopped , so there is nothing to loose. If it works on the CBD it works, if not try somewhere else....

Leovb you in Auckland?  contact me web master link top left of www.kakariki.net  have a coffee one day

[Leovb]

Hi Steptoe,

I had a quick glance at the kakarikisite and I'm afraid my worst fears regariding DOC policy have turned into reality. Somehow, stopping news getting into media and known to people and the isolation of NZ and keeping the focus on Possums, Deer and the likes does prevent that DOC is confronted with the illogical and inproductive way of going about as far as the Kakarikis is concerned. There seems to be a lot of selfinterest on organisationlevel involved and so probably also on individual level. It's the same everywhere in the conservation-world (as in others) globally but it appears to me that DOC plays major-league here. I suppose thsi comment doesn't improve my chances of getting a job with DOC but I couldn't work for a organisation that is willingly acting like DOC dos in the Kakariki-case. Thankfully red-fronted Kakriki's are kept worlwide so they won't be lsot for next generations. But unfortunaltely all teh other Kakariki species are hardly found in aviculture. Think of what 10 aviculturists could accomplish with ten pairs of any kakarikispecies, balck stilts, takahes, kakapos or whatever species!, but that would show a side of DOC that they seemingly don't want to be known so it most probably won't ever happen.)

To remind you and all other readers of this forum; In 2000 (give or take a year) one of the very few remaing large mammals of Europe became extinct. The Iberian Ibex. This was totally unnecessary and could have been prevented if there only hadn't been selfinterest of organisations and individuals inside the conservationmovement. I believe all that remains of the Iberian Ibex is DNA of a female. Again the end of a species that could have easilly been kept alive under controlled conditions. Without wanting to be cynical I think that this will happen to scores of species in the next decades worldwide. Conservation should without trying to save habitat also start to establish viable populations of as many threatened species as possible in/under controlled conditions. It is an utopy that nations will start enough conservationprojects (or are even interested in) in time to save the scores of threatened species there are today. The world simply isn't big enough to keep biodiversity as it is alive. So it's all about saving what you can by the methods that are realistic and available. Involving people to "hands on" preserving species, like breeding kakarikis in aviairies, would be an efficient and effective way to at least keep species from extinction. The you can start releasingprojects when habitat is restored (if ever, we should get real about that to). Unfortunatley extinctin really means the species is gone forever! So, the phrase "restoring the Dawn Chorus", though a nice marketing slogan, is something that will never happen. But boosting the dawnchorus there still is by the sounds of kakarikis is very much possible. And as NZ is resemblent of an open Zoo, releasing Kakarikis every year (as is being done with black stilts, takahe) shouldn't be a showstopper for concrete private contribution (of a number of birds a year).

Anyway Steptoe, I am shocked and a sad that in this Kafkanian world of NZ and conservation you are forced to kill your kakarikis. It defies all logic. For the kakarikis and for you and your fellow breeders I hope that DOC will find it's common sense in the near future. I mean only the fact alone that you need al licence to breed kakarikis! Like needing a licence to breed Zebrafinches! Even the Dutch government has decided that for a species like the red siskin (Cites species and , though a large new population was discovered a few years back, still threatened) which are easy to breed, don't need a licence if wearing a band of a breeder. So there is hope that NZ (isolated as it is, which is definitely a factor in this. E.g. just think of what neighbour countries of NZ would think of the continuing poisining of land and water with 1080) and its DOC will become commonsensical before it is to late.
(till that time I will not start breeding kakarikis, because I would not kill them but release them. So, I guess I'll start breeding cockatoos, rosella's, lorikeets and mynahs ).

P.s.; I live in Christchurch (well near chch anyway) so coming over for a cupper will take some time. But thanks for the invitation and when I am visiting Miranda, Tiri tiri (open zoo with hybrid kakarikis! That would be a shocker for birdwatchers worldwide!!! If they knew) and the Hauraki Gulf next spring I will certainly try to come and see you. Meanwhile, if you come to the South Island, you're welcome. Seems we would have lots to talk and agree about.