Private breeding for release

[LuisOrtiz]

Hello All: Captive-breeding for release has attracted conservationists around the world for a long time. Caring for an animal in captivity, then seein it breeding in the wild is a powerful image. However, conservation is more than just releasing animals in the wild and this truth has become more evident in recent years when analyses of reintroduction programs (which cost a fortune) reveal that many effrorts fail. Conservation also involves the long-term persistence of populations and genetic lineages and the factors that take place in these processes go beyond our timescales. I do not think that breeding kakariki and then releasing them does much for the conservation of the species. On the contrary I think it is irresponsible to do it as a private initiative. From a genetics and disease point of view. I believe captive breeding has its place but not because a species is abundant in captivity (namely kakariki) it should be released as a swarn hoping they will establish and flourish...I have studied kakariki in the wild (orange-fronted and red-crowned) for nearly six years and the more I understand about their behaviour the more convinced I am that captive breeding in private aviaries is simply not a viable conservation initiative....so if you ever thought of just opening an aviary full of these birdies...think twice...Im happy to discuss further.
Luis Ortiz-Catedral

[LuisOrtiz]

Another detail I forgot to mention: where did that figure of 80% of parakeets dying translocations came from? this number has been posted in this website but without a proper quote. This is a misinformed claim and I do have the data to support it.

[Steptoe]

Hi Luis...

However, conservation is more than just releasing animals in the wild and this truth has become more evident in recent years when analyses of reintroduction programs (which cost a fortune) reveal that many effrorts fail.

On one hand there has been great concern and expense where loros where released into the wild and started to reproduce...on the other efforts, in certain species fail....and yet we have large populations of Sulphur crested, rosella that have established......releases of phesant for shooting season also establish viable populations....It is also know there jave been many illegal release ...and legal  before 1980......how many of the  isolated wils populations are attributable to these?

I have studied kakariki in the wild (orange-fronted and red-crowned) for nearly six years and the more I understand about their behaviour the more convinced I am that captive breeding in private aviaries is simply not a viable conservation initiative

Like you,  Private breeders (many all around the world) have studied capitive kakariki for decades, and we know the behavour, adaptabilty of kakariki, and are convinced they will adapt well to the wild

new post this reply bosx is hopless

[Peterlimburg]

Hey Luis,

At first, welkom that you visit this topic.
My name is Peter Wauben and I'm a kakariki breeder from the Netherlands.
I breeding now several years with the redfronted and the yellow crown kakariki (auriceps). And it gowing well in the aviculture, only here in Europe are the most kakariki's hybrides or a color mutations. Therefore it's necessairy to protect and research the wildlife birds.
Your and other work is dowing well. The idea of Steptoe isn't so wrong, only do not open the avary as a stuptid monkey as you sayd, thats isn't my or Steptoe idea.
It's a very good to combine and unite the breeders experience with you research.
Even better, i have found a article, my idea wasn't so wrong, on this forumsite.

Here is a recently posted newsletter from Tony Pullar on recent activities with the Captie SI kaka population

South Island Kaka Update:

Hi All, just a quick update with happenings in the captive South Island Kaka population. Birds have been moved around the Island of late essentially to establish new breeding pairs and enhance the public display opportunities.  Willowbank Wildlife Reserve are the latest institution to receive a pair of kaka which now sees two pairs held in Canterbury the other being at Isaac Wildlife Trust. Orokonui Eco-sanctuary currently have 8 birds in captivity in their Forest aviary but the exciting news is that 6 of those 8 are about to be liberated into the sanctuary. This probably heralds the first ever release of captive breed South Island kaka and will hopefully be the beginning of many more. The release itself will be a low key affair more so to protect the birds at release time and to elevate the chances of the birds feeling comfortable around their release aviary without crowds and camera’s.  When we have the birds settled into the sanctuary forest we will celebrate this momentous occasion far more publicly.  The release birds are made up of offspring from two breeding pairs.
       
The Orokonui kaka aviary is divided into two sections, to the left is accommodation for one pair and to the right is the holding/release aviary. The release birds have been trained to eat food from weather proof feeders and these will be located at several other locations within the sanctuary but away from the aviary. The release aviary will remain open to allow birds to return if they wish. The release of kaka has only been made possible by the generous support of kaka holders both in time and resources especially Dunedin Botanic Gardens and Invercargill’s Queens Park Aviaries.  All of the release birds were reared at these two institutions.   Prior to the Orokonui release the captive population stands at 14.12.0 (26) and these birds are housed with 7 different holders. Genetically this population is closely related and in time we will need to look at introducing unrelated birds but in the meantime it is full steam ahead with all established pairs to provide release stock for Orokonui and any other future release sites. Loss and mortality is a possibility upon release but we are fitting transmitters to all release birds so we can at least monitor the bird’s movements.  I will give you all an update over the next months but in the meantime thank you one and all and I look forward to hearing of any breeding activities from your birds.

Regards
Tony Pullar 

Email; tpullar@es.co.nz
PH 03 4738 740 or 027 662 7356 
 

This is the way you also can try, use some selected breeders with the permissions under supervising from the DoC's and veterinarians as well. Ring and  register all released birds, so you can have supervice and control , sicknes, health, genepool, etc ,etc.
Now the NZ breeders can breed with he birds and that's it. What must they dowing with the chicks ??
They can't release, them can't sel them. Only killing them to make room for the next generation in their avary.
The pest and diseases control programs must go on, thats a fact.
It's up to you, what you can dowing with this method.
It's time to change, give it the chance and look to the future.


greetings,

Peter Wauben

http://kakarikiwereld.weebly.com/

[Steptoe]

On the contrary I think it is irresponsible to do it as a private initiative. From a genetics and disease point of view.

Yes I agree......
There uis no way that the wild stock from the barriier can be garrenteed as pure breed, there is no way any wild stock in NZ can be garanteed as not hybrid.....there have been too many hybdids illegally released over the last 100 yrs..on the other hand over several generations the purity can get to very high levels that are of acceptable , and more than likely higher than what is already in the wild.....
This is where in my submissions, any hybrids in captivity should be destoried, not grandfathered out.
Disease, a you are awhere 12 of our birds where genetically cleared, sutiable for surrogate parents for the orange captive breeding program....and are also in many of NZ zoos.
And if disease was such a huge issue why are release programs of pheasant and game  not also included?

The 80% is a speling error, cant read whayt is being typed....meant to be 50% which was reported in a news item sometime back, cant find the reference.

There are several issues,
1/Your program has been a huge move forward after yrs of beuroctatic  delay and hassles,  and very positive results...breedersoverseas have a huge experiance in mass production of kakariki, and these methods  as far as I can establish have never been used or researched as far as reintroduction goes
2/That Anywhere else in the world, and it is estimated that there are more kakariki in capitivity in the rest of the world than NZ, they can be kept as pets, which cant be done in NZ since the 1980s...yet our children, schools cannot do so in NZ.
3/Even if reintroduction using captive stock was limited to city bush researvers, parks, and if they do not reproduce due to nesting places,(unlikely), and there is a high attrition rate, kakariki are a very adaptive bird, (yor own research)and they do live for many yrs anything from 12 to 20 odd yrs ...There is still a good chance they will establish themselve in NZ backyards, as do fantails, tui, wood pidin, kingfisher, white eye.

Surely the over aim of reintroduction of species is to eventually to have them back in our backyards as they do in other countries..and to do so means a lager scale than relocation of a species to isolated every few months.
You say monitoring is very expensive...what is the the purpose of research, to gain information on the species..what is the ulimate purpose of conservation, reintroduction...the reestablishment of the species or the reseach? If releases of captive species into towns was able to take place, this is a great opportunty for  students, 5 /10 yrs down the line to then study.

[Stumbler]

This subject has had a reasonably long history of debate.

I believe most opinions already made by all posters are correct, regardless of their individual points of view. This may be because these posters all have extensive knowledge and experience.

Overseas examples of The Orange Bellied Parrot and to a degree the Echo Parakeet, regards Captive Breeding Programs as opposed to Reintroduction by transfer initiatives do have data that shows the failures and successes of both methods to increase the wild populations.
The programs that these two species have undergone address both disease(mainly PBFD) and genetics; along with predator issues and habitat concerns.

I first bred Kakariki 30 years ago, current lifestyle has now allowed me to return to keeping Kakariki and recently I built up a small breeding group and bred over 60 birds last year.
It was not easy to find homes for them all and I've scaled down now.

[Stumbler]

I live in a wilderness situation and have extensively studied wild birds.
There is regularly wild birds turning up, these often feed my captive birds through the wire.

Fortunately I am in an area where DoC are very user-friendly regards new permit requests for people wishing to keep a few birds. Most birds I supply for free.

My personal view is that now there are advances in predator contol methods with new pockets of relatively safe areas being effectively controlled, as in the likes of ARKs, private, community volunteer and in-town initiatives. Along with progress in understanding genetic and disease concerns, the time is near where something could be looked at.
Though somewhat idealistic and potentially doomed to failure, results should increase knowledge.

[Steptoe]

Couple pms with John
Any issues like I have been having with reply boxes and IE 8 
Clk the compatabilty button at the end of the address bar...
fixed.

[Stumbler]

Misguided release of birds is just not sensible as besides disease and genetic concerns, most released birds would just be an easy food source for predators.

I hope the valuable resource of contributors to this thread can share some common ground and with an open mind see boths sides and address the subject without prejudice.

Thanks to Admin for the opportunity to voice opinion.

[pablo]

Hello everybody,

I just wanted to clarify a point.

First of all dealing with overabundance of kakariki is very easy. Open the aviary door and "voilez". Problem solved. That's what most people does when they want to deal with overabundance of a given animal, be it a dog, cat, bird, etc...

When I said that I meant that it's what most people do when they want to get rid of an animal, and by no means I tried to encourage anyone to do it or meant it was ok to do that.
Indeed I love hookbills, but it doesn't mean I'm happy to see a feral population of quakers and indian ringnecks in my town.
Same as it doesn't make me happy that people let go of a dog because they have to go on holidays, or it makes poo, etc...

Luis, I'm glad you turned up and gave your opinion in this thread. It's very interesting since there are probably few people that had the opportunity to research kakariki so closely.
I think this could be a 2-way benefit. Captive breeders indeed benefit from research and learning the different behaviors of the bird in the wild. And captive breeding can help researchers somehow predict and study the birds beforehand.

Regarding of introduction of captive-bred birds, I think some species have been more successful due to aggressivity and territorialism compared with less successful species.
If we take a look, quakers and indian ringnecks are extremely hardy, gregarious and very territorial/aggressive. Additionaly they perch in high trees.
Red fronts indeed are hardy, and I think they won't take long to figure out how to find food, but... I think they have 2 major disadvantages, 1 is that they stay on the floor most of the time (at least in captivity), and they are quite fearless and confident.
I have never seen wild-caught specimens or known about their behavior, but parent-bred not socialized birds, after a few days when I enter the aviary they come bite my shoes and walk around me without any fear. They are too curious and I think they don't sense danger, or curiosity overcomes their danger awareness.

I don't know if Luis could corroborate this behavior in wild red-fronts.

regards,

Pablo
(Spain)

[LuisOrtiz]

Hi Guys thanks for your comments:
We all agree on one point: the experience of aviculturists and of researchers can be mutually benefitial. Together we can identify and achieve better conservatin goals. The upcoming parrot convention in NZ organised by the Parrot Society will be a great forum for communication. Indeed Im presenting a talk then, so perhaps we can meet face to face and exchange our experiences.
True: kakariki are more abundant (perhaps) overseas than in NZ and true, school kids might not have the opportunity to have pet kakariki and learn about them in an aviary next to the classroom. However, New Zealand kids have the privilege of being able to take a ferry, go for a walk to one of the Hauraki Gulf islands and see not only kakariki but also kaka and wood pigeon and many other marvelous New Zealand birds. In terms of the detection of Beak and Feather Disease Virus (BFDV), Im currently working with virologists from the University of Canterbury and the University of Cape Town. We have reasons to believe that even when an individual tests negative for BFDV the virus might be present and remain infectious. All of our work of the last year is about to become published and it is my personal goal to make this info available as it relates to the conservation not only on native parrots but also of exotic species kept in New Zealand. Im happy a space like this exists were we can exchange ideas and I promise I'll allocate a bit more time to let you know what goes on in kakariki conservation. In the meantime, have a Merry Christmas 

[Bruce McKinlay]

Hi Luis,
You mentioned an upcoming conference on parrots in New Zealand.  Got any more details or time etc.?

Thanks
Bruce

[jaytourist]

in my own opinion, exotic birds or wild birds should not be taken as pet. birds must enjoy living in forests rather than living in a cage. we should always think of thier gradual distinction. let's breed them in the forest rather than in cage.

[Steptoe]

Like everything....it comes down to budgets
Captive breeding to return to the forests....One cant breed in the forests untill there is an estabished flock, so how would you propose to do this?
DoC currently has relocation programs, very expensive and release are not established flocks with their social heiargy in place or paired birds.
And where there are no flocks or birds avalible, the use captive breeding....again very expensive.
Also Doc doesnt have the budget to breed restore all the endangered species, untill they eventually become at risk, like the orange kakariki.
This where experianced private breeders should come in....and their a lot who would jump at the chance...retired people who would love to pull weeds, plant trees but physically cant...but can breed alsorts of birds, and do...like kakariki, weka.....other could breed robins  as they have huge experiance in finch type birds.
It can be done for Approx $12 to $15 per bird in the case of kakariki.
I know this because I have breed around 300 +in the last 3 yrs...
Lost count how many in the last 8 or 9 yrs.
But rather than release (illegal) I have no choice but chop most of their heads off...the same applies to other species, reptiles, fish etc. breed by private breeders.

Imagine if DoC had this great idea to make use of private breeders, even if they covered costs like tree planting...100s, 1000s of different species of birds snalls, reptiles fish being released not just into pest free islands, but back into our city parks......like Aussie has.
This would be ground breaking , world wide, and even if 1/2 sucessful, with back up resaerch, observation, release practices would improve.
The PR for DoC world wide, For NZ, our Clean green image.

Here is an idea...the information offices in the Waitakares..have a problem with sparrows in the rafters....now if they where thrown out, and 5 or 6 nesting boxes, with a pair of kakariki already sitting on eggs, or with chicks, in each, was taken from a captive avairy, with them in, and screwed to the rafters, unpluged......Thev experimentation some of us private breeders have already carried out says they will carry on basically as nothing has happened.
PLUS kakariki are terroritial to other birds..no more sparrows, the nesting boxes are placed so droppings are not a problem.....and visitors have friendly little parrots running around.
But all this is just to easy, doesnt cost enough, and common sence....
no way would DoC ever think up something like that, or even alow to happen right?

[Dave Houston]

Having some responsibility for one endangered spp of parakeet (Forbe's) I can confidently say that captive breeding of this species for release makes no sense at all.  Like other species, the issue is not the supply of birds, rather the presence of predators in the habitat.  Forbe's and other parakeet spp flourish on predator-free islands, but establishing them at other sites requires intensive and extensive predator management.

Wild-to-wild translocation of NZ birds has proved effective in both financial and real terms and in the majority of cases there is no need to set up or maintain a captive breeding infrastructure.

I reiterate: You're trying to sell something we don't need.  In most cases we need predator control, not a bird supply, so instead of breeding unwanted birds, how about doing some predator control in your local park instead?